Continuous Delivery

This is a message more so to the developers, and while I acknowledge it probably won't change, I was curious people's thoughts.

Continuous delivery is the concept of releasing smaller and releasing more often.  As someone who is affected by the notification bug in a severe way (it's impacting my ability to perform my job, as I rely on e-mail notifications and chat notifications), I've often found myself in turmoil as to return the phone or not.

Part of this struggle comes from the fact that I must wait for whatever other bundled changes will exist inside the update that may finally fix the notification bug.

I know "apps" often release very often in small batches, I know the product my company works with does multiple releases per-day to fix issues.

I'm curious why the phone industry (or ZTE if we're keeping it relevant), hasn't adopted a similar behavior (i realize ZTE released 2 updates in 2 months when I first got the phone, which was impressive, so kudos)

Anyway, food for thought from a struggling by happy Axon-7 owner

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Comments

  • vanguyvanguy USAPosts: 597 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like the idea. Waiting a long time to have real issues fixed is not good for business, it's always best to keep customers happy.

    Considering that quite a few folks change their phone as often as the weather changes, the experience they have with your product can be less than desirable if serious issues are not addressed quickly. This doesn't help build your brand.

    I think a better approach would be to release patches and security updates no longer than every 8 weeks.

    I've noticed that OnePlus (main rival for Zte in this market) has done a better job at this.

  • johnorionjohnorion New YorkPosts: 1,109 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yep .. they are faster .. they have a touch latency problem discovered in November ... um ..  and now its almost January and it hasn't been addressed ... almost sounds like the power management issue that started in November that hasn't been fixed in the Axon 7 yet .. seems like you may have your information a bit off there. They seem to have the same time frame of fixing things as ZTE and at least ZTE actually listens to their customers and has customer support unlike the OP3 which you buy and they take your money and run . OnePlus is a rival only due to price range because no one does their research .. if they did they would see that ZTE is a much better choice.

  • wasabitdiwasabitdi Calgary, CanadaPosts: 89 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Me, too. OP3/t is really a better phone minus the front speakers. I have camera issue with my Axon 7. The Nougat beta program on OP3 is really make me rethink my choice with ZTE.

  • johnorionjohnorion New YorkPosts: 1,109 ✭✭✭✭✭

    again .. misinformation .. OnePlus 3 released OxygenOS beta 10 yesterday (Nougat) .. the OP3T is still using an older version and has no update date news for Nougat. So the only thing that OnePlus is doing is releasing their beta to anyone that wants it (but it puts you on beta OTA so you will not get final releases unless you flash back to the original release) instead of like ZTE who is doing it in more of a closed beta instead of an open beta and will be released as a full update even for those who are testing the beta. None of the OP phones have or are getting final Nougat yet .. if they have Nougat then they have the open beta.

    Now this information is taken directly from their site not some fly by night rumor mill site.

    Sorry .. it's a pet peeve of mine having people say that the garbage phones with garbage support are being compared to a ZTE. One Plus has been repeatedly called out on its horrible phones and support yet everyone seems to consider OP like Apple .. putting out crap but because it has the Apple name people still pay big bucks for outdated garbage. I guess if ZTE wants to compete they will have to waste their money paying off sites to say good things about their phones and stop dealing with their customers like OnePlus does.

    Sorry .. I'll take a company that is listening over a company who ignores its customers once they have the cash in their hands. I'm sure we will get the full Nougat update probably quicker then OP3 and definitely quicker than the OP3T which seem to be even slower in its updating schedule.

  • Time, resources, money. ZTE is a much larger company than OnePlus is. As good as it sounds to have these minor releases, they still have to bug tested, approved and in some cases sent through carrier approval.

  • johnorionjohnorion New YorkPosts: 1,109 ✭✭✭✭✭

    no front facing speakers .. 1080 screen ... no expandable storage .. smaller battery but yeah .. its better ... it may have a slightly better camera but that is one thing better out of 5 .. sorry .. overall the ZTE is a way better phone .. and it has support too.

  • stanthemanstantheman Posts: 293 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I also am holding my breath and hoping that ZTE get's it right with Nougat. I can wait for them to get things as good as can be so no major rush for me. I appreciate that ZTE is "listening" but that needs to translate into fixing the quirks.

  • stevec5375stevec5375 TexasPosts: 805 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    This is my first ever unlocked phone purchase outside of my carrier, T-Mobile.  I have been a Samsung user as far back as I can remember.  While not perfect my last phone did not have the bugs that I've run into with my brand new Axon 7 Limited Edition.  The first few days I had the phone I hit the Bluetooth missing metadata on my Honda's head unit.  Then, I ran across the Notification LED only staying on for 5 minutes.  I look all over the documentation for how to do the memory management functions of the phone and found absolutely nothing.  I'm a retired software developer and if I am having issues you can bet people who are less technical than me are having issues.  I really like the hardware of this phone but the more I play with the software, the more disappointed and aggravated I am becoming.

  • vanguyvanguy USAPosts: 597 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is an article from Phone Arena today:

    "Last month, OnePlus said that it would update the OnePlus 3T and OnePlus 3 to Android Nougat before the end of the year. The year is ending today, and, thankfully, an official Nougat update is indeed coming to the two smartphones.

    OnePlus co-founder Carl Pei confirmed (via Twitter) that a stable Android Nougat update is ready, and will be gradually rolled out, over the air, to the OnePlus 3T and OnePlus 3 "later tonight." Since we're talking about an over the air update, it's likely that not all OnePlus 3 and 3T owners will receive it today. But the update is coming, and everyone will probably get it in a few days the latest.

    If you just can't wait for the stable release, and you know how to install a software update manually, a beta Nougat build is currently available to download via OnePlus' official forum. However, this particular beta is only for the OnePlus 3T - the OnePlus 3 is not included. For more details, check out the second source link below."

    There have also been patch releases for the 3T,  which has not been out that long.

  • vanguyvanguy USAPosts: 597 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The success of any business depends on how they respond to customer needs.

    One thing I have to say about OnePlus is that the CEO publicly acknowledges bugs and positively responds that they will be fixed.

    I think this is an area where ZTE could learn and improve. As far as what I have read on this forum and other website news sections, I've never seen ZTE formally acknowledge a bug or offer any response as to whether it will be addressed.

    I think this has probably caused a lot of frustration among A7 users.

    We are all hoping and keeping our fingers crossed that issues reported here on the forum will be fixed in the upcoming OS release. But it's all just a guess. We have no official word from ZTE.

  • johnorionjohnorion New YorkPosts: 1,109 ✭✭✭✭✭

    well it amazes me that its out today yet their site doesn't have it available .. I think they are probably rolling out the beta to OTA because they promised and like ZTE doesn't do ... now they are stuck rolling it out to keep their promises even if they haven't tested it properly.

    Also ... people are saying the OP is a better phone .. it has 3 generations... it should be perfect by now but it still has all kinds of problems. ZTE is just releasing this new phone and yes .. they fixed a few issues right at first but .. now there is a big update with Nougat coming out .. so it is taking them a little longer to release the next patch but we are talking a month or two not 6 months or more. OH MY we have to wait a month for an update .. that is horrible .. sorry again .. the OP has issues that have been a problem for the past month too and they didn't get an update to fix that .. it will probably be fixed in the Nougat update .. just like all the issues the ZTE has with the Axon will probably be addressed in the Nougat update. So considering this is Gen1 of the Axon7 and they are doing just about as much work and probably more than the Gen 3 of OP... again .. the ZTE is leaps and bounds above the OP yet .. people are so confused about it ... they seem to think a phone with no support and horrible ethics is a better phone than a ZTE.

    I guess its time for me to take a break from this forum .. .seems that I'm starting to get real annoyed with the lack of ability for people to understand how business works and how horrible the OP is compared to the ZTE. I'm at the point where I wish everyone who mentions the OP would not buy an Axon and buy the OP so they can see how bad of a decision that was.

    Yippy for those who have an OP3 .. not anything but the OP3 .. because they are getting a poorly tested, rushed release of Nougat before us... but .. those who have a OP3T .. well ... sorry you are in the same boat as us. They haven't even said when they plan on releasing Nougat for the 3T. I bet if you go to their forums now... since they supposedly are releasing the full Nougat version today (which is think is not true or again .. they are prematurely releasing it because they wanted to beat ZTE ), I can almost bet that the forums are brimming with posts about problems they are having with the new update .. and guess what .. bet it will be more than a month before they see a fix for all the new issues that the premature release causes.

    But I'm done arguing about the basics of business .. how patches work... why companies do what they do... I wish people would just go buy the OP3 and not bother to post foolish comments about competing phones that aren't even any real competition other than their price point. For the price the Axon 7 is hands down the better phone. Yes there are issues with MiFavor... but again .. we don't know what is going to change in the Nougat update and it is not an unreasonable time frame when it will be released.

    If you don't like the Axon 7 because it is a new phone .. get yourself a lesser quality OP3 because it's the 3rd generation so they had 3 years to work on it and still haven't got it right yet. Then go complain on their site about it and see what type of support you get. Then once you trash your OP3 and buy an Axon 7 again .. maybe you wont be so easily fooled by media and the BS it feeds you.

    I'm done dealing with this OP crap .. Like I say .. if you don't want a new phone because you can't handle waiting a bit for them to smooth out the wrinkles in it... get a OP3 .. one that has been around for years and had the chance to fix all the bugs .. but .. sorry to say .. you will still have issues even after 3 years of work on it. But if you want a new high quality phone with much better design... you will have to understand that it will take a bit of time to deal with the growing pains of a new device. 

  • Just to be clear, I didn't start this topic to be a OP vs ZTE thread, and while I appreciate the spirit of debates as much as the next person, I just want to remind the topic here.

    The idea that ZtE (or anyone) can and should do smaller releases more often to fix issues is where technology not only is going but is already.

    How many Instagram updates do you receive in a week? 2 for me. Now yes, Instagram is a much smaller app than an entire phones kenrel / os...But still.

    Also regarding carrier testing, these phones are unlocked so no carrier testing needed.

    It should be designed to allow small, continuous updates.

  • I was saying that having more devices to support could lead to less attention being paid, but seeing as this phone is their "baby" it really should be at the forefront of being taken care of.

  • I'd be happy with monthly updates on phones along with security updates, TBH. I think that's more than enough time.

  • stevec5375stevec5375 TexasPosts: 805 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Continuous Delivery goes hand-in-hand with Agile Development Methodologies.  Some companies haven't made the leap and are still wrestling with Waterfall.

  • johnorionjohnorion New YorkPosts: 1,109 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice post .. too bad there is nothing to verify its validity. Considering that they are saying the OP3T will be getting the roll out too .. they aren't very reputable in my mind since the last thing that was said was the OP3 would be getting the update but the OP3T will have to wait.

    Sorry ​ .. that article was not from OP so the validity is not credible. OP's site doesn't list anything but a beta for the OP3 .. nothing for any of their other models so if it was available for the OP3T .. the beta should have been listed for that as well as the OP3 but its not. Unless OnePlus lied about the OP3T not getting Nougat at the same time as the OP3 and is now changing their lie .. or maybe just lying again saying the OP3T is getting it, its hard to say. I wouldn't put it past OP to just say to the press that they are gradually releasing it just to say they were first and not actually releasing it yet ... I would like to see how many have actually gotten the update ... saying they are gradually releasing it is a good way for them to act like its released so they can say they beat the competition, but holding it until they are done with testing. If anyone tries to call them on it .. they say .. its gradually releasing and you just haven't gotten it yet.

    As for the article .. what was left out was

    Carl Pei @getpeid   

    This is what we're releasing today: 1) Open Beta 1 (Nougat) for OP3T. This is already live on our forums.

    **they are on open beta 10 for the OP3.

    2) Android N stable OTA for the OP3 and the OP3T. Gradual rollout will begin later tonight.

    So .. even here he contradicts himself ... the open beta for OP3T is releasing today and the stable OTA for the OP3T will gradually roll out later tonight. Why would they release the first open beta in the morning and the full OTA later that night. Something isn't right at OP and it seems that their ethics are being called into play again .. seems he is not telling the full story. I think it is as I said, they are rolling out the beta or they are saying its gradually rolling out so that they can tell people .. "oh you haven't got the update yet .. yeah .. well its gradually rolling out so you will get it eventually once its rolled out in your area"  This way they can say its released but it really isn't.
    Again .. people are falling for the media BS being fed to them and it seems like just a lie. Because of OP's bad ethics, I would highly recommend you don't listen to anything said even by the CEO because as you see .. he can't even get his own statements correct.
  • vanguyvanguy USAPosts: 597 ✭✭✭✭✭

    stevec5375

    I don't speak latin. Can you translate? What is ADM

  • vanguyvanguy USAPosts: 597 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I guess I inadvertently started the slant toward OP vs ZTE, although it was not my intention. Sorry the thread evolved that way.

    I was just pointing out that a smaller more responsive company has done just as you suggest.

    It is a better way to handle customer service.

  • johnorionjohnorion New YorkPosts: 1,109 ✭✭✭✭✭

    op3 or op3T .. beta or full ? .. has to be beta since according to the media everyone seems to be so trusting of ... it says that the Full OTA will not be released until tonight.  .. Ok .. again .. I'm done with this .. don't bother replying I'm done with the forum for a while so I will not see your replies.

  • ​ i don't think you started it lol, there wasn't really a start. You mentioned the name as comparison and then we just kind of started off on a tangent. No worries

    I owned a LG G3 before, and they had skin over the experience, i'm OK with the UI changes, although i'd rather pure Android.  Bugs are bugs, look at the Pixel, they had 2 major issues (lens flare on pictures and some audio issue i can't recall at the moment)

    So it's not that there are bugs that I care about, It's more so the transparency (lack of communication) / delay in updates (which is why i started talking about deploying more often/ smaller updates)

  • vanguyvanguy USAPosts: 597 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree totally.

    I hope zte REALLY IS LISTENING.

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