Did somebody say…Bootloader?

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  • rczriderrczrider AshevillePosts: 352

    Uh, okay.  Sure, I'll gladly pay out of pocket to replace an actual manufacturing defect.  That seems reasonable when I could have, instead, used the phone in the place of skeet and shot it with a shotgun and returned the shattered remains for a replacement.

    Did you read what you wrote before posting or did you just close your eyes and start hitting keys?

  • poohbiwonpoohbiwon USAPosts: 714 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Outstanding! I won't be unlocking anything until the warranty is up, but I'm so happy the option will embrace me with open arms in 2 years! Thanks for listening, ZTE!

  • supraketsupraket Mumbai, IndiaPosts: 94 ✭✭✭✭

    Oh is it? Didn't come across it in my search.

    Probably it'll be in Chinese completely, and I won't understand anything out there.

    But yeah, could be more.

  • So let me understand correctly.  The $100 Zmax Pro can request a bootloader unlock but the $99 ZTE Z958 (Zmax2 - LOL) users are just getting told to pound sand?   Way to ensure a lack of repeat purchases.  Talk about conflicting information.

    Re: ZTE Zmax2 Bootloader

    Dear Valued ZTE Customer

    Thanks for contacting ZTE.

    We are sorry to inform you that we do not support unlocking the bootloader and rooting the device.

    We apologize for the inconvenience

    Should there be further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.

    Best Regards!

  • Same thing with the Warp Elite. It's like saying, "Hey you bought the cheaper phone, so no unlocking for you!" If you offer a service like bootloader unlocking to one phone, it's wrong to not offer it to the others. Especially ones that are much older than the Axon...

  • mantionmantion Knoxville, TNPosts: 157 ✭✭✭

    Did some say ... I LOVE ZTE.. 

    Great work everyone that helped push this along.  Can't wait for my phone, hope BH ship it soon.

  • mantionmantion Knoxville, TNPosts: 157 ✭✭✭

    You remind me of my friends that say "when I was in high school we didn't have the internet, its not fair they can do research papers at home.  We used to have to goto the library and had to read hole books instead of doing a quick search". 

    If you want the best phone from an awesome company then buy a ZTE Axon 7, Cell your old phone or use it as back up. 

  • The question is: What kind of brand ZTE want to be?  If ZTE want their flagship to be more Samsung/Lenovo like, and consider bootloader unlocking as a courtesy; or want to be OP/Google like, and want to embrace the developer community. Many are not happy because they had hope that ZTE would choose the 2nd path.  ZTE's phone business doesn't do well in China right now, and their oversea business so far is more on low end devices.  I personally think that it is very hard to establish Axon as an alternative to Galaxy or Moto right now, but there is still chance to beat OP and Nexus.  However, at the end, it is their brand and it is their choice.

  • npaladin2000npaladin2000 Wappingers Falls, NYPosts: 376

    If I were ZTE's shareholders, I'd pick Samsung frankly. You might hope ZTE

    chooses the second path, but they and their shareholders are in this to

    make money, and I wouldn't blame them for aping the successful smartphone

    companies instead of trying to grab a tiny niche market that's already

    well-served.

  • I have made my point as to why I don't thing whole warranty should be voided but I accept that because I do want my bootloader unlocked and if I have to give up warranty then so be it.

  • Speaking of school, perhaps you should have stayed in longer.  "Cell your old phone"  The word is "sell".  "back up" is "backup".

  • Your analogy isn't even close to being the same as this. Their older models weren't bootloader locked. Then they locked it. Now they are letting people unlock. So what's the harm in letting the people who are in the middle unlock their bootloaders. I get what you are trying to say, but it is not the same as getting the internet to do research papers...I have a perfectly good phone. Why should I have to sell it for less than a quarter of what I paid to then spend double that to get a new phone that I can then request the bootloader unlock for? That is taking one step forward and 4 back.

  • firetruck41firetruck41 Camas, WAPosts: 29

    You don't have to sell it, as you said, you have a perfectly good phone.

  • I was making a point to ​. I don't want to sell my phone. All I want is the bootloader to be unlocked.

  • rczriderrczrider AshevillePosts: 352

    That would be a bold choice that would most likely fail spectacularly.  ZTE isn't going to become anything like Samsung any time soon, and certainly not with the Axon 7.  It's poor business sense to come into a saturated market and try to compete with the reigning champs.  In broad terms, those who use Samsung flagships are just like those who use Apple devices: people with money to burn who don't mind paying a premium for no reason other than name*.  Samsung doesn't need to charge $700 for a phone because that's the only way they can make money; they do it because they know that a certain subset of consumers will pay for it and they're happy to take them for a ride.

    * Don't get me wrong, the Samsung flagships and iPhones are almost always high-quality devices with top-of-the-line components and polished software (though why TouchWiz is still a thing defies logic).  But their customer base is mostly fanboys, not folks who are (generally) open to other options.

    The S7 is like a Lexus, while the Axon 7 is like a high-trim Toyota.  They're frequently made of the same parts, but that Samsung is going to feel nicer.  It might have a few bells and whistles that you can't get on the Toyota (in this case, the camera).  The driving experience may be smoother.  That Toyota with its top-of-the-line trim, though, it's going to get you where you want to go and it'll get you there feeling like you got a great value.  I'm aware of how this analogy is not quite spot-on, but I think the core holds true.  You give up some things in order to pay less, but still have the same general expectations (quality, performance, style, design, etc).

    There's no point in ZTE coming in to act like Samsung with its flagship.  They're trying to do what Hyundai and Kia did 20 years ago (or maybe longer, I'm getting old): compete with the more affordable options by offering value, a lower price without compromising on those things that folks were looking for.  Establish yourself as an option.  Market to a broader base and sell more phones.  If you sell twice as many phones at half the profit as Samsung, you still did just as well.  Again, I realize this analogy isn't perfect, but it demonstrates a not uncommon strategy for market penetration.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.  But when it comes down to it and independent of what stockholders want, Kia isn't really going to compete with Lexus, so why bother trying?

  • npaladin2000npaladin2000 Wappingers Falls, NYPosts: 376

    That statement was in response to someone asking what ZTE wants to be, implication being that they should be serving that "developer" niche.  You actually make a good point against that though with this statement: " It's poor business sense to come into a saturated market and try to compete with the reigning champs."  Nexus are the champs of that market. ZTE doesn't need to go there. Likewise you're right about Samsung, though Samsung has been successful in what they're doing.  ZTE really needs to find their own niche, probably the audiophile/multimedia niche that HTC seems to have abandoned.

  • where can we access the form to fill ou so we can unlock the bootloader? I dont see it anywhere in the subforum

  • razor512razor512 United States Posts: 2,533 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Supporting the dev community is not really competing with other major companies, instead it is more like adding functions which only have benefits in order to make a product more appealing.

    For example, when a consumer router maker adds dual WAN support, they are not trying to compete with enterprise equipment offered by Juniper and Cisco, instead, they are simply adding functions that are useful to some customers while having no negatives for the customers who do not need it.

    How many people here after updating their router firmware, and instantly got very angry and frustrated because the company added dual WAN support in the advanced network settings?

    Overall, for many products, functions are added in order to allow it to appeal to a wider range of customers.

    Think of it like windows being targeted at the basic user, but if offers a wide range of advanced functions, thus you have an OS where it 1-2 year old kid can easily learn to use in a few minutes, while also allowing an advanced user to also be satisfied with the OS.

    With a fully unlocked device, the basic users, or the user who is just getting their first smartphone, can have an extremely easy time with the device, and the advanced user has the option to unlock the device for even more control.

    In such a case, both user types are satisfied, while simultaneously not bothered by the functions. The basic user on both a locked and unlocked device, never has to worry about the bootloader (similar to how a basic user never has to worry about the boot manager on their PC).

    One area where the basic user can have some piece of mind, is in the future. If the smartphone stops receiving updates, the user can be sure that they will still be protected from the next stage fright or other massive security flaw, as updates will be released with 3rd party ROMs.

    With the latest vulnerability such as quadrooter, the security risk extends back very far, but just like stage fright, there will be over a billion devices that will simply never get a patch because the company that made the device,no longer feels like releasing updates for them.

  • npaladin2000npaladin2000 Wappingers Falls, NYPosts: 376

    Actually, an unlocked bootloader is a danger. Locking the bootloader down

    is similar to the UEFI SecureBoot functionality, protecting one's boot

    image from malware corruption. With an unlocked bootloader, it's relatively

    easy to change the bootloader image...that's the whole point, isn't it? But

    if the user can do it, so can malware, particularly malware disguised as

    "really cool ROM installer, just tap here!" So kudos to ZTE for planning to

    restrict that function to those who know what they're doing, and agree that

    if they have issues, they're on their own.

  • rczriderrczrider AshevillePosts: 352

  • teutonjon78teutonjon78 USAPosts: 326 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Maybe not the best analogy anymore, since SecureBoot was recently compromised with a key leak, which would let ANYTHING replace the bootloader image. Oops on MS.

  • npaladin2000npaladin2000 Wappingers Falls, NYPosts: 376

    Well, how much can you expect from MS? I switched to a Chromebook. And

    honestly some people use exploits to get by locked bootloaders too, so the

    analogy is still fairly valid.

    On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 4:08 PM teutonjon78 <[email protected]>

  • dabehrsdabehrs Dripping Springs, TexasPosts: 446 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ​ I picked the Axon 7 over a Galaxy device so it's not going to be that hard for them to displace sales from either of those.

  • dabehrsdabehrs Dripping Springs, TexasPosts: 446 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ​ your analogy is not that far off. The only thing I would add is that there are many of us that can afford the Infiniti but understand that the Nissan is the same car with a few less luxuries but I can spend a little extra money on 3rd party options to make it more like I want it.

    I refuse to buy carrier locked or bootloader locked devices and went into this with the expectation it would get unlocked and i could then make it my own and get all the years of use out of it I want.

  • I have to ask if you make this up as you go along? Seriously, real question.

    Why can I ask that with impunity?? Well, for example, have you heard about Quadrooter?? Its a set of four vulnerabilities affecting Android devices built using Qualcomm chipsets. Google it. Real crackers don't need no stinking unlocked bootloader to compromise your phone!! (read with a mexican accent from The good, the  bad, and the ugly)

    Trading the warranty for an unlocked bootloader is just poor strategy - still a strategy, but without vision IMHO

    .ZTE could have taken the crown from OnePlus.

    Your comments really are irksome as they add nothing constructive to the debate moving forward.

    Please don't take my critique personally, its really just a summation of all the 'anti unlocked bootloader' sentiment. Which in itself is ironic...if the 'feature'  is of no importance to you..why would you 'lobby' to prevent or curtail it for others.

    ​ deserves a shout-out for delivering (even if it was with a caveat)..... Hopefully ZTE can see to it that his wife gets another night out!! He took one for the team.

  • dabehrsdabehrs Dripping Springs, TexasPosts: 446 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ​ the ONLY issue I have with what you posted is that your quote..... it's from Blazing Saddles and not The Good, The Bad and The Ugly, and it's actually mocking Treasure of the Sierra Madre.

    other than that... spot on.

  • dabehrs

    Spot on!!

  • razor512razor512 United States Posts: 2,533 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    The locked down nature in that case can be a double edged sword. For example if the malware infects the system partition of the smartphone, it will able to survive a factory reset, but with an unlocked bootloader, it is possible to do a full reformat of all of the NAND (make it completely unallocated), and then re-create the partitions, and load a load all of the relevant data, while on a locked down device, the user will not be able to easily clean such an infection. Overall, if the need arises the user will have access to a nuclear option if they suspect an infection that can survive a factory reset.

    Furthermore, most exploits that get reported and patched, will make their way to various exploit kits (e.g., look at the Angler exploit kit).

    Many privilege escalation exploits are very complex, thus with a locked device, the risk is higher for a user to get their device infected by malware which leveraged a complex exploit, while the user has no simple way to gaining access to the areas needed to actually remove the malware, in such a case, the added security, ends up working against the user.

  • ciko84xp@gmail.com[email protected] Rossano (CS) - ItalyPosts: 50

    "Turn your device into a expansive paperweight" is an old way to saying. About 10 years ago this dictum was really famous, but the technology of smartphones was really different compared to modern technology.

    The problem isn't hardware, because 10 years ago there aren't CWM/TWRP with touch screen and file manager... 10 years ago the only way to comunicate with phone was via bootloader. If you wanted test a beta release of your Custom ROM the only one method was try to falsh it via USB (Odin) and PRAY to see 100%... if the process stuck between 0% and 99%.. you had bricked your device... because the ROM is at 99% therefore don't work, with stuck bootloader you have no way to dialogue with pc, therefore you can not flash a new ROM... in the end you have won an expansive paperweight!

    But ahahahahahahahahah... today's "chefs" can load their ROM's on a MicroSD, launch the flash via CWM and if all is wrong, restart, Mega-Wipe, and re-try!!!

    To brick a device with modern smartphone isn't really a simply thing in my opinion! If i've not bricked my HTC TyTn (year 2006/2007) when i've cooked my 1st Custom ROM flashing a beta version directly over the bootloader, today's chefs with various Recovery can make all the mistakes of this world that the device does not brick!!!

  • I am with this guy. Unlock the warp elite! Unlock all ZTE phone's and let us decide what we want to do with what we paid for!

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